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Wrong Relationship Creates Illness -- For Life!

Source: Private Message

Karl Note: It would be the nature of this type of message that the writer does not want her name shown, as this lady asked, and that, further, some of the data be changed to preserve her anonymity. I very much respect her wish, and thank her, also, very much for being willing for me to share the main thrust of her story with you. I am using "Sally" as her name for this page. That is not her real name.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 8:05 AM
To: karl@karlloren.com
Subject: Illness & Relationships

Hi Karl,

I've spent the morning traveling around your website. Thank you so much for your candid approach and integrity.  So much of what you've said is part of my previous belief system.  You've added so much more that I wasn't aware of and explained many of my doubts.

In particular, I'd like to speak with you about illness and relationships.
I'm living proof of exactly what you're saying.

I was born in 19xx and as a child, I was hospitalized with vague illnesses that were never determined. My symptoms mimicked rheumatic fever although that was ruled out. I had massively high antibodies that were unexplained.

My mother was fixated on my bed-wetting so cystoscopic exams were routinely ordered. Doctors always expected to find large "masses of pus" to explain my high fevers and aching joints. But that never happened.

[Karl Note: The image on the left is ONE type of gadget used for cystoscopic exams Can you imagine how the insertion on a regular basis of such a tube into a woman's vagina would be upsetting -- a very young woman?

Now add to this that the use of this tube followed mother's yelling and anger, and a doctor, who should know better, who is peering at this frightened little girl's private parts!)

After I got away from my family, my health improved.

I moved near my mother again in 1991 and my health has steadily gone down hill.

I have CFIDS and am depressed, anxious and obese. (CFIDS is "chronic fatigue immune deficiency syndrome" and I have written a very full article on this HERE.)

I am going to have blood drawn later this week to find out about nanobacteria to explain my latest infection.

I just completed a session of energy work (which drained a pilonidial cyst) which was wonderful but I can't afford $300 a month forever that's not covered by our health insurance.

I have a wonderful holistic M.D. who told me early on that if I could heal my family relationship, I could heal my body. I know she's right.

However, I've finally stopped trying to have a relationship with my mother. I can no longer try to appeal to her only to be thrown out of her house because I refuse to be her victim and then be the subject of her lies to elicit sympathy.
We are now at a total impasse.  I have tried everything I know but the only relationship I can have with her is one where I continue to be her scapegoat.

I'm tired and sick and sick and tired.  She is dishonest and uses me to elicit sympathy from her other two kids who don't live locally.

They, of course, "hate" that I'm "mistreating" this elderly woman with the healthy check book who is generous to them for keeping her secrets.

I no longer have anything to do with any of my family.

My father died in 1988 of pancreatic cancer so my mother now has full rein to her lies and manipulations.

(Karl Note: There is no doubt, within my philosophy on "wrong relationships" that the mother was the primary cause of this girl's father's cancer -- so deadly are these wrong relationships.)

Without this sick relationship, my health should improve however I can't rid myself of the grief and despair at not having a family. Of course, I realize this is crazy, which brings me to my reason for writing to you.

How do I change my thinking and feel okay about where I'm at?
I can't change my family but I can change myself but I don't know how.

I suppose that what you need to know to help me is that I was severely punished every morning for wetting the bed. While my mother rubbed my wet panties in my face she would tell me that no one could ever love me and no one would ever marry me. Many men wanted to marry me but I was sick at the idea that anyone might find out how "unlovable" I truly was.

Seven years ago, I married a man who has two children from a previous marriage. His entire family is deceased except for his kids who don't live locally.  It's too late for me to have a family. And my anxiety is preventing me from making other friends.

I want to have friends and enjoy life but don't want to be around people.

I want to move out of this area but my husband is tied to his job.  I have tremendous resentment for my mother who fed me this legacy that prevented me from having my own family and now tells lies that prevent me having a relationship with my birth family.

I feel as though I'm trapped in a lonely existence with my husband who is a good person but pretty much emotionally unavailable. Where do I go for help?

Please forgive this personal outpouring of emotion. I feel at my wit's end and am filled with hope that your sound wisdom can adequately advise me.
Thank you so very much for your honesty and excellent work.

Sally

P.S. I'd greatly appreciate you not airing my letter on your website without substantially changing it and my name so I can remain anonymous.
Thanks.

Dear Sally,

Wow!

A fascinating story.

I can help you.

First, I want to ask about CFIDS -- the most usual "remedy" for that condition is the prescription of anti-depressants.

Can you tell me which ones, if any, you have taken, or are now taking?

Answer and I'll respond.

Cordially,

Karl Loren

October 2, 2002
Thanks Karl for your quick response.

No -- no antidepressants for me. I don't handle Rx drugs well at all.

My wonderful doc (who, btw is a Harvard grad MD who treated conventionally for 26 years and then switched to holistics cause conventional medicine doesn't work) Rx'd things like licorice tea to support my adrenals and a whole regimen of vitamins and supplements for the CFIDS.

I've been pretty healthy (for an obese peri-menopausal sad woman) except now I have these recurring infections (abscess on my stomach, pilonidial cyst on my tailbone) and she's going to research nanobacteria.

I do have depression and anxiety -- I recently ordered some herbs from the Navaho's in Flagstaff, Az which is wonderful for the anxiety.

Do you have some ideas?

Thank you so very much for your interest and concern.

Sally

Dear Sally,

Thanks!

Good news on the absence of anti-depressants.

It is one thing to offer these free books. They can be used to spot wrong relationships.

But it yet another thing to do what I am doing. I am trying to be a "morals counselor" to those who visit that web site, and my "morals counseling" is another experiment.

There is no question that I could remedy the upset you still feel with your mother. That is a certainty. But, the question is whether I can do this by eMail or not. So, you are an experiment.

It sounds like your doctor may be OK, but she certainly doesn't know how to solve CFIDS.

So, I ask you to do three things.

1. You may have already done this? Read my article about fibromyalgia. The situation is hardly different from CFIDS. It is located at: http://www.chelationtherapyonline.com/anatomy/p1.htm

2. Next, visit www.happinessonline.org . Read and comment. Ask for the free books if you wish. One of the experiments I'm trying with this site is to give people a clue as to what a "wrong relationship" might be. You can read there and see what your mother was doing -- something that violates some moral code. I have not yet covered all the codes, and maybe I need to add more. Your page might well be the section entitled "child abuse." Visit, let me know what you think.

3. As you read that article on fibromyalgia, you saw the remedies I suggest. Diet is a big one for you. I know with some certainty that your diet is not good -- else you would not be sick and fat. I am also experimenting with how to get people to not run away from my diet suggestions. So, after reading the above, read at:

http://www.karlloren.com/Diabetes/raw-food-diet.htm

Let me know.

I do have some pages on nanobacteria. Here:

Nanobacteria -- The New Thing In Heart Disease
... Nanobacteria -- The New Thing In Heart Disease. Source NanobacLabs, top. What
are Nanobacteria? ... Nanobacteria are far smaller than any known bacteria. ...
www.chelationtherapyonline.com/articles/p54.htm - Similar pages

Nanobacteria? Real Or Figments Of Fragments?
... Nanobacteria? Real Or Figments Of Fragments? Source. Monday, March 22, 1999
Published at 14:05 GMT Sci/Tech Do nanobacteria rule Earth and Mars? ...
www.chelationtherapyonline.com/articles/p80.htm - 46k - Cached - Similar pages

Part Of The Mysterious History and Origin Of Nanobacteria
... Part Of The Mysterious History and Origin Of Nanobacteria. Source Michael ... Park.
Today nanobacteria are either growing on them or not. ...
www.chelationtherapyonline.com/articles/p81.htm - 70k - Cached - Similar pages

Section of Articles On Chelation Therapy
... Nanobacteria -- The New Thing In Heart Disease. Nanobacteria? Real Or
Figments Of Fragments? Part Of The Mysterious History and Origin ...
www.chelationtherapyonline.com/ articles/indexsuppository.htm - 42k - Cached - Similar pages

Table Of Contents for the "Articles" Section of this web site
This is the DESCRIPTION home page for the organization that has the leading planetary technology for removal of metals from the body
www.chelationtherapyonline.com/articles/toc.htm - 61k - 1 Oct 2002 - Cached - Similar pages

EDTA Suppositories -- Another Validation Of Oral EDTA
... but all the descriptions of their use seem to make reference, also, to an antibiotic
called tetracycline, used, it is claimed, to kill "nanobacteria" that have ...
www.chelationtherapyonline.com/articles/p20.htm - 101k - Cached - Similar pages

Check out these.

I could comment on what you are doing, but not just yet. I've given you a great deal to study.

See how it goes.

Cordially,

Karl Loren

Dear Karl,

Okay, my education starts forthwith....

I did read your article on fibromyalgia and the section on child abuse as well as many others.

But I will re-read the info and I thank you for the research, your interest and the links.

I'll be back with you.

By the way, my doctor is not so sure of herself that she's not open to guidance and advice from others. You'd love her -- she's an advocate of exactly what you're teaching.

I've just spent the last hour watching Oprah where she advises 20 million people that a biopsy is something to be rushed into???.... Okay, so thank you for the other insight and guidance.

Wouldn't I love to teach the world to sing??? Or, err ummmm, for you guys to teach the world to sing... but then again, look what the beef industry did to her...

Okay, guys!

Just for my interest, where are you located anyway?

Thank you both.

I'll be back.

Thank you again!

All my best, Sally

----- Original Message -----

Dear Sally,

I am located in Burbank, CA.

I have one biography at: http://www.happinessonline.org/KarlLoren/p1.htm More in other places.

As you'll see there, I'm 71, have a wonderful wife, six children, and about 20 grandchildren. You made a remark about your doctor being Harvard? You must have read that I have a Harvard MBA.

So having read amongst the pages on the Happiness On Line site, one of their uses is for you to be able to spot the exact behavior, around you, that violates one or more of the moral precepts.

The idea is that once you agree with someone, as in a marriage, or as in what society expects, when either breaks that agreement there is turmoil. The turmoil can and usually does affect the health. It is easier to spot the breaking of an agreement by another, so that's where I start.

It is good enough, as a start, to realize that it is your mother who is a problem. It will help more if you can spot exactly what she does that is in violation of some moral code -- hence the web site has that use.

Generally all of these broken agreements can often be distilled down to two. I'll write it as personal about your mother.

1. She invalidates you. She tells you that you will never marry, or that you are dumb, or whatever she says. It is an attack on YOU, as a being. This does not include that she might say, "Your shoes are dirty." That is not an invalidation of you, as a being. These invalidative remarks are deadly, and unfortunately common.

2. She evaluates for you. She tells you what to think about yourself, or situations.

There are other characteristics of someone who is breaking a moral code, but the above two are often at the core of all others.

My sense is that either you are very quick, or you were reading for some while? In any event, I am even more hopeful that I can figure out a way to help you by eMail.

I would next suggest that you may pursue the nanobacteria remedy, but I believe your much bigger problems, and more basic, or in two areas.

1. You may have toxins locked up in your fatty tissues. Street drugs? Medical drugs? These are oil soluble and never leave your body without the detox method I recommend.

2. You probably have a rather poor diet? Before I tell you what I advise, I ask you to describe your usual diet.

As you might guess, I don't sell anything connected with either of the above.

You are welcome to bring your doctor into this at any time -- as long as you feel she is NOT violating any of those moral codes. Usually she would have been recommending psychiatric drugs, or referral. If she did not? That is a large plus point for her.

I await your next message.

And, there is no need for only men to change the world. You can and should and will.

Regards,

Karl Loren

October 2, 2002
Dear Karl,

Thank you so very, very much for your most candid assessment.

I have just so very recently returned from five weeks in California. Starting in Oxnard and continuing north -- both my husband and I are totally intrigued by your mesmerizing weather and attitudes -- deep sigh -- what a glorious and gorgeous environ!!! If only we made enough money to make this transition.... meanwhile, no, I'm sorry I missed your age and educational environ but I do endorse your attitudes, etc...

I have for a long time questioned what inspires my tremendous integrity. I figure it's because of having been raised in such a dishonest environ that I have rebelled to a point of such honesty and endorse such integrity.

But then again, who knows..... I love hearing about someone with such marital fidelity and children and grandchildren to their credit. I will read your suggested websites and thank you in advance.

You are absolutely correct in your assessment of street drugs and/or pharmaceutical drugs. My first husband was and is a pharmacist and brought home samples from the store. I did mescaline and acid and various other "highs" during my late teens. Are these still impacting my health?

I listened to the health professionals -- I weighed 131 pounds and had an hour glass figure of 36-24-36 but was told this was not okay and not good enough.

I remember one doctor who told me that I should weigh 120 or an alternative weight of 121. Was he out of his mind?

At 131 pounds, I vacillated more than 7 pounds in either direction on any one of my best days. I do believe that drinking diet coke and taking diet pharmaceuticals seriously impacted my health. If you have any remedies to these things, by all means, speak up, I am listening.

As for toxins in my fatty tissues, I am toying with the idea of Penta water.

Any suggestions? I was very much addicted to diet coke years ago and probably did tremendous damage. I have endorsed and subscribed to mega doses of pure water to no avail.

To answer your questions --

1. Yes, yes and yes. I thought my mother hung the moon and her invalidations of me were, as you say, deadly.

And 2. Yes, yes and yes again! She very much evaluates for me and leaves me feeling inadequate and unworthy at every turn.

To answer your questions, I would hope that I am very quick but have been reading since I taught myself at age 3 or so.

I try to follow a healthy diet for my diabetic and hypertensive husband but were I to follow my basic instincts, I would adhere to a white Anglo Saxon diet of white flour, mega sugar and high fat.

I do try to do lots of veggies and fish for his/our sake.

Basically, I'm suicidal by natural means but a real chicken and don't care to suffer in any way at all.

So, if you think there's any hope for me, I will read your suggested links to your websites. I agree with you so very much and feel in very competent hands.

Thank you so very much for your interest and candor.

God bless us all.

Best Wishes,

Sally

October 2, 2002
Dear Sally,

Well, you certainly give me a lot to chew on.

I understand that you have "spotted" your mother -- sounds like a given. You can yet help yourself by spotting some specifics of what behavior of hers has invalidated you and evaluated for you.

But, it sounds like you are ready to approach new vistas.

You mentioned early on that you found your husband was "pretty much emotionally unavailable."

Also, I now learn he is a diabetic.

The drugs you have taken? Those are easily handled, when the time comes, although it will take a leap of hope and faith, with some money for the cost of the detox program I recommend. It is offered in 100's of cities, by the way.

The diet you have been on, and are on? These will probably be handled with more difficulty -- in part because one person never eats by herself, but in a social setting with another, or more.

I'll get to my own diet in due course, but it is fairly easy for me to pursue my diet when my wife is away. She is currently away for several weeks. We have a loving marriage, and she doesn't disagree with my diet. But, she doesn't share it, so I feel some sort of compulsion to eat what she eats -- and go off my own diet.

She left just a day ago and my diet is rather pure just now.

So, there are these areas that need to be addressed:

1. The bringing together you and your husband. It is not to be expected that he would have my skills at what I am doing, but it would be best if he shared fully in what has transpired between you and me. Is that possible?

2. The diet change. It isn't that it would cost you anything, and the foods would be basic and good. But, the social pressures and the "desire for food sensation" are strong obstacles that would need to be handled.

3. At some point you will need to get the toxins out of your body --- perhaps your husband too? This is one of the easiest parts of all this, but it takes some money to do.

4. Finally, there are a variety of mental exercises I can have you do that will help you become happier, no matter what else happens.

Penta Water? A fad, nothing more.

Nanobacteria? Another fad, not basic for you.

I don't think there is any great improvement ahead for you in any type of pill, nutrient or medical treatment.

Let me put my attention, first, on the relationship between you and your husband.

What would it take for you to have him review all our correspondence and generally support what is going on, even to become a part of it. No secrets???

Regards,

Karl Loren

Octobe4r 3, 2002
Good Morning Karl,

Thank you so much for taking such time to consider and address my situation. I am ready to approach new vistas.

My husband is trying to be closer and is supportive of me. I have already read some of our correspondence to him and will make sure he's aware of all of it.

I love no secrets/no lies. Makes life a whole lot easier. Our time together is limited because he's married to his job. I'd love to spend more time with him.

I spent a little time back on your website last night using the links you provided and was delighted to hear that you also are a man of integrity and honesty. Good for us! I'll be back on your website later on this morning for a little while.

My diet is horrendous right now although I've been attending OA for a couple months now. I keep hoping that something will snap me into eating better. That's one of the reasons I ended up on your website -- looking for some inspiration to snap myself back to good healthy eating. I sabotage myself regularly. Perhaps, at some level I don't feel that I deserve to feel good. Although I would like to rise above that old nonsense. I know that I need to detox.

I'm extremely acidic right now. My husband has lost 43 to 53 pounds since I started cooking for him. (I've gained that and a whole lot more.)

I try to keep him healthy. He's not on any meds but lots of natural supplements. I am a food addict and sugar is my drug of choice. I am at least third generation sugar junkie. Even when I've been able to get off the sugar/flour, I haven't lost any weight. I believe that my cells are probably loaded with lots of toxins.

I am open to your suggestions and look forward to starting the mental exercises. I think if I start thinking more positively that I could act more positive towards improving my health. You have my full attention Karl.

Thank you so much.

Best, Sally

October 3, 2002
Dear Sally,

The big problem with OA is the one I described, I hope vividly, in my article on fibromyalgia.

The other normal remedy, besides psychiatric drugs, for fibromyalgia is "victim support groups." You are generally spending time, perhaps pleasantly, with losers, and there is no central direction -- no technology. I've not read more than a few pages from the OA web site, but that is my first conclusion.

It is not inherently harmful, but at the very best it would be neutral.

Only if there were someone within YOUR group who succeeds in stopping his compulsive eating, and stopped because of some "thing" which is reasonably true for you, and that he then teaches that "thing," etc., would it be helpful.

My guess is that the majority of people who join OA leave the group, or quit attending meetings, without solving the problem they wanted to solve, and I also guess (unless it is contrary to the rules) that a fair number are on psychiatric drugs while attending OA meetings. Thus the majority at any meeting will be losers. It is very similar to a "wrong relationship." You are associating with people who are harming themselves through overeating -- a violation of the basic moral code of "take care of yourself."

That happens to be one of the moral codes I've not written about yet. It IS covered in that free book, however. Part of that code, in the book, is simply: "Eat properly." There is a bit more to it, of course.

I'm curious why you have not requested the free book?

Simply put, you are associating with people who are violating that moral code, specifically, and hoping to find some way to stop violating that moral code from people who ARE violating that code.

I don't think your answer will be there.

You would be far better off at a gym, where physically fit people go. You may not want to be seen? It would be better to be seen at the gym, even if fat, than attend a meeting with losers. At the gym you would/should spend some time doing whatever you CAN do. Perhaps it is only to sit in the sauna? Perhaps only to wade in the pool? Perhaps you can do some of the exercises? You would need a regime that didn't set you up for losses and where you can meet others. Even another fat person MAY be a good friend at the gym, although there too you want to be sure they are making progress in their goals, not just attending.

Goals? Certainly one would be "regular attendance." Another could be some success on your diet. I could go on.

I'll see what you have to say on this part.

I understand that you "will share" your correspondence with me -- with your husband. I accept for now that you don't feel ready to ask him to read all the raw stuff. Once having written something to me, you can't undo it. It isn't that I'm going to tell him. No! It's that once you take the words out of your mind and put them somewhere in the physical universe, you are always subject to the wonder of whether or not he has seen them. It is the withholding of the things said, not so much the things thought -- these are the withholds that harm you.

Mental exercises, making you happier? Yes, that I can do, and might yet

Particularly since I have no "control" over you, and am doing this by eMail I can't know, for sure, what is going on with you, other than what you tell me. It would be very tempting for you to "forget" to tell me of those things you think I might disapprove of. I do not suggest that you do this, but I do know that is one of the problems with trying to help someone through this eMail medium.

I am getting closer to a plan with you. We'll see.

Cordially,

Karl Loren

October 3, 2002
Dear Karl,

I understand exactly what you're saying about support groups. I tried one several years ago and it was exactly as you describe. It truly was a bunch of people sitting around talking about how sick they were and as far as I was concerned, how they could stay sick.

OA is not like that.

The meetings here are very small. When I first went there, they went around the table and added up their OA experience. Between six people, they had 98 years of OA experience.

My sponsor, who is ten years my senior, has lost over 70 pounds. Another woman exactly my age lost 36 pounds in her first year with OA. Another woman lost over 50 pounds over 25 years ago and keeps coming to help her with her spiritual program.

Another woman lost "all her weight" (whatever that might be) years ago and then gained a lot of weight recently after her second husband died a year after her first husband had died. She is finally "abstinent" which means off sugar and flour and eating three healthy well balanced meals a day.

No drugs/pharmaceutical/diet devices, etc that I am aware of, at all. The "thing" that helped them and that they are teaching is to surrender our compulsive eating to God (as each individual understands Him) and to work a spiritual program.

All the twelve step groups are spiritual programs. I think that if you were familiar with the 12 steps, you might agree that it is a program to promote success. But I'll leave that up to you, if you choose to check it out, click here. Twelve Steps .

As for having only read some of our exchange to my husband: Not because there's anything I don't want to divulge. Just because he probably wouldn't think it all very interesting. But I did tell him at breakfast that you want him to be privy to all of it and we will do that tonite when he gets home.

I've spent a lot more time on your website this a.m. between other things I need to tend to. WOW! I had no idea I was so very much in the right place when I happened onto your website.

There was a great deal I didn't know when I first wrote to you. Divine Intervention! And I came across the page to order your books and did.

Your webpage snapped me off mid sentence but that's okay. You know me here.

As for there's a lot more that I need to or should tell you, you're absolutely right. I wasn't withholding anything but after all, you were a perfect stranger and I was amazed at the outpouring of information I had given you. I thought you were an alternative health proponent and probably sold vitamins. I'll fill you in on the whole ugly mess but please don't forget that you asked for it.

As far as not communicating to my husband or not telling you what I think you might disapprove of -- not anymore. I used to live my life like that all the time. But at my age, it's time to get to a place where I feel better about myself rather than trying to convince anyone else that they should like me under false pretenses. I've been up front honest with Gene (my husband) and with you and will continue to keep it like that. (Although I'm not my biggest fan, I do love that about me!)

Okay, my apologies in advance....

I'm filled with anger. Lots of anger for the situation with my birth family that I already described to you. Further anger for my marriage. We were married less than two weeks when his ex-wife had us served with a lawsuit blaming me for abusing his daughter (who was then thirteen) and of course, asking for more money. He paid her handsome child support and alimony which was not used for the kids.

I told him that the allegations about the abuse had come from his daughter telling tales back and forth to elicit sympathy.

No way would he believe this. Not his child! And we argued bitterly. (He would regularly pack up his things and tell me there was nothing he could do other than leave me. I lived in absolute fear that my mother's legacy was absolutely correct and him leaving me was proof that I was unlovable and unmarriageable.

It took years until I finally told him that he had better already have his stuff packed the next time he threatened cause he would definitely be going.)

In a deposition (which cost handsomely) his ex revealed that the abuse stemmed from helping the daughter to read better when we had the kids for visitation.

Okay, so I was guilty.

I knew that the kids were not being treated right and were neglected. I called the abuse hotline and placed a complaint. The State of Florida went out to investigate and when the abuser told them that I had complained as a way of getting out of paying child support, they believed her.

The kids went without dental work, eye glasses, medical care, etc. until we took them. (Major resentment on my part.)

In June of '98, the kids moved in here with us. Andy was two months shy of being 19 and Lisa was four months shy of 16. But they were not normal 16 & 19 year olds. They were like 7 and 10 year olds. Lisa and I got very close and she was blossoming under my tutelage.

"Tell the truth, do the right thing cause it's the right thing to do, live so you can feel good about yourself, etc... "

I can't imagine that a natural mother could love a child anymore than I loved her. She felt so good about herself until she went back to spend a weekend at her grandmother's so she could visit with her mother. She came home and announced that the mother had gotten in the shower with her and pulled her pubic hair.

When I asked her why the door wasn't locked and why they were at the mother's cockroach infested house in the first place, she said, "Okay, then I'll just never have sex again."

Lisa and I never had a good relationship again.

The boy, who is an Eagle Scout, started lying and stealing. I went crazy and started yelling and screaming. Finally the story broke that he was stealing (things he could have had here for the asking) because his mother had "brushed up against his genitals"...

And the process began.

Before it was over, we realized that the mother had been molesting him since he was an infant and was maintaining a full blown sexual relationship with her own son.

She works at a hospital on the midnight shift and floats between departments like pediatrics and the nursery, etc. I can't sleep thinking what this pedophile is doing to other infants.

I went to the Florida Dept. of Law Enforcement (FDLE) to see if they could do something about her. They needed to speak to the boy. He went in and told them his story and they agreed there was something there. Meanwhile, the daughter tells me that the mother had been molesting her also.

I informed FDLE who, of course, wanted to talk to Lisa. After I told her how important it was for her to tell the truth, tell the truth, tell the truth, she went to FDLE and told them that I told her to say these things about her mother.

FDLE called the son in and they told him that his sister made this all up and that if they go forward he'll have to "go to court in front of his mom, his grandparents and kids he went to school with". He did exactly what I would have done.

He said he made it up also. My husband came home and sat his darling children and I at the kitchen table and told me that the investigation was over, that the kids had lied and that it was all my fault.

I went ballistic.

At this point in my life, I have no idea why I didn't throw them all out of my house. Instead, I tried to figure out how this was my fault, how I could be guilty, etc.

Now I know that the crap I had learned from my mother prevented me from having the self resolve to know I wasn't guilty but that's now and not then.

I was filled with rage. I went to my mother and she asked how Andy would like it if someone went to the Eagle Scouts and told them what he had been doing with his mother. She then said he was certainly old enough to know what he had been doing and he was a rotten kid.

I believed her.

I turned against him and became very judgmental (just like my Mom). Andy moved out and Lisa and I continued to battle it out.

Daddy saw no wrong in Lisa and took her side on everything. I appealed to Andy to please talk to Lisa about her attitude.

After each appeal, it seemed as though she actually got worse. Later on I would find that she and Andy had a pact with their mother not to listen to me and do whatever they could to make my life miserable.

Lisa told her teachers and anyone else who would listen that I was beating her and abusing her including people who my husband worked with. Everyone believed Lisa, as I had previously when her mother was her bad guy, and I have been banned from the social circuit where my husband works.

Lisa's behavior got worse and worse and she remained totally undisciplined. She was fired from two jobs each after less than ten days when money was missing from the cash register. She had everyone convinced that it was because she didn't know how to make change and that her manager's had been picking on her. I was the bad guy cause I could see through this manipulative liar who everyone else saw as a poor helpless victim.

She moved in with a friend of mine who needed help and stole over $600 from her. When she was tasked with "finding" the missing money, she "found" over $300.

She swore she didn't take the money and I, her father, her therapist and priest all believed her.

When the game was about over and she hadn't produced the other $300, she was faced with the possibility of my friend calling the police. Lisa then broke into her youth group leader's house and waited till he came home from work. She told him that she was bruised all over her body and that I had done it and that she had been falsely accused of stealing the money.

The youth pastor was called and he called me to tell me that if she were under 18, he would have already called the police about Lisa's allegations against me.

I asked him if Lisa had informed him that she had returned over $300 of the money she was "falsely accused" of taking. Lisa finally did tell him that was true. For the first time, Lisa's father got involved and disciplined her. He took her to the therapist she had been seeing plus two others, plus her priest and a nun. Everyone concurred that this child has no conscience.

When we really didn't know what was true about the sexual allegations against their mother, both kids took lie detector tests. Each kid was asked five questions about what their mother had done to them. Andy answered no, no, no, no, and no and flunked his test. Lisa answered yes, yes, yes, yes and yes and also flunked her test. I didn't want her back in our home so I found a minister in Alabama named Charlie who has a ministry for troubled young adults. Lisa moved in with him and his wife, sister and two other troubled young women last October 30th.

She has held a job at Walmart now for seven months. We rarely hear from her. We do know that she accused Charlie of abusing her and trying to have sex with her.

The FBI ended up being involved with this and Charlie emerged unscathed. In the process of her lies, a good Samaritan contacted Lisa's mother in Melbourne, Fl to let her know that Lisa was being held against her will by this minister using her to have sex.

So Lisa's mother, the pedophile, now has contact with her daughter. We know that something went on with the mother and Lisa but we don't know what and certainly can't believe anything she says.

Since all this with the FDLE, I found out that they are the same agency that dropped the ball when I complained that the kids were being abused and neglected way back when. Now it makes sense. They make themselves the policing agency of what goes on in our homes and then drop the ball when kids are being abused. Years later the victims are sitting in front of them to tell them the exact nature of the abuse. They had to make this case go away and so they did. This has rocked my confidence in the state. I wish I had the strength and stamina to go after them but I can't do it alone and I don't feel that I can depend on anyone else to help me.

Meanwhile, the mother's mother, the children's grandmother has made herself the spokesperson for this entire situation.

I am the bad guy. She has bad mouthed me to friends of my husband's who I haven't even met while she tries to exonerate her daughter.

I feel like I'm back in Niagara Falls, where I was raised, and am the bad guy no matter what I do or how hard I try.

Actually, I've quit trying. I've stopped trying to have a life and have tremendous anxiety at the thought of interacting with people.

I isolate at home by myself most of the time. I walk my big dog at 5 a.m. when no one is out. My husband recognized that he was wrong and is trying to make it up to me.

He feels helpless/hopeless cause no matter what he does, it doesn't undo the damage that's been done.

My anger is so great but it comes out inappropriately to the wrong people. I can't very well be angry at my husband who's trying so hard to make up to me for his misdeeds and there's no point being angry at this confused and rotten girl who lives in Alabama.

There's nothing I can do about the pedophile or her controlling mother. They are Teflon. My husband went to family court to ask that he can stop paying the pedophile alimony that will last for her or his lifetime and we are awaiting the judge's decision.

Today is day 51 of waiting. I believe that the lengthy delay is in our favor but so many times before when I've felt optimistic regarding these people, something happens and they're off the hook. I've made my peace with Andy and he and I have a good relationship now although I see how damaged he is from all of this.

To sum all this up (finally) alternative medicine says that infection is anger trapped in the body and I believe that's totally true in my case. I can't believe that this pedophile has her mother supporting her while my mother has nothing to do with me and makes up lies about me at the lowest point of my life. How unjust is this? Of course I know that life isn't fair but what is this incredible situation supposed to be teaching me? And how much longer is this going to take?

I truly feel as though I'm suffering with all of this. I know that all of this is making me really sick but feel helpless to change any of it.

In December, we'll be married for seven years and I feel as though I've spent seven years in hell.

I also don't feel that it's right to end this marriage when we've gone through so much and have gotten to a place of complete honesty.

I see my husband trying to be closer to me and recognize that he can't really talk to me about feelings cause he doesn't know what he's feeling.

I've turned to food as my drug and have gained over 100 pounds since we got married.

Okay, so that's the rest of the situation. I believe I've included all the major points to give you a feel for this mess. You must be some kind of saint to listen to all this from someone you don't even know (although I can't help but feel we've known each other forever at this point). Thank you so very much, Karl.

Sincerely, Sally

Dear Sally,

Well, I've read it all, carefully.

I got a late start at reading. It is late and I'm going to bed -- I think about this more and write tomorrow.

Cordially,

Karl Loren

Dear Sally,

I've now had time to read your last message more carefully.

If I understand your current husband is Gene?

He is the father of two children who you helped raise but who are now out of the house?

During the several years you and he were raising those children their mother, Gene's ex-wife. caused trouble?

Two weeks after you are married to Gene the girl's mother accuses you of child abuse and he refuses to believe you that this is not true, and believes his daughter that YOU are abusing the girl?

The girl needs to admit the truth or you should never see her or speak to her again. She needs to put that truth, in detail, in writing,

This dispute and charges against you, and Gene's belief in your guilt, continued for some years and was finally partly resolved only when you threatened to leave Gene?

I would not necessarily expect Gene to have a good relationship with his ex-wife, but does he now agree that the ex-wife was guilty of various abuses of her own children, including sexual abuse?

Is he willing to put his beliefs in writing? In detail?

And that his ex-wife blamed you for these abuses?

And that Gene, for some years, agreed with his ex-wife and did not believe you?

You were convinced that the boy was sexually abused by his mother, he then denied it, you went to your mother and she said he was a rotten boy, you believed it and he moved out?

Gene later agreed with you that he had been sexually molested by his mother?

Since leaving your home Lisa has had a very difficult life?

Including that she falsely accused her youth pastor of sexual attack?

Now, despite the fact that Gene agrees with the falseness of the charges against you, his ex-wife's mother is continuing these allegations?

Does Gene have any continuing relationship with the ex-wife's mother?

So, you have described Gene as a loving husband. The above are NOT the actions of a loving husband. If he sees the data, as I have summarized them above, as true, then he must realize that he has been an extremely wrong relationship for you, and you have been foolish for remaining with him.

While you are always responsible for your own condition, he certainly seems like the cause of your terrible health and condition right now. It is not just "him" but your continuing relationship with a person who has been very wrong for you, and apparently has not done what I would call a proper project to make amends for his wrong actions.

That amends project? When and if it gets to that I can advise you further.

I don't want to try to be a judge of "truth," and hear "his side of the story." But, he should have a chance to read my exact words, and then discuss this with YOU. With absolutely no force or threat he should agree or disagree, and with no fear of consequences, you should decide to either disconnect in some way, or to handle him on his wrong behavior.

As long as there is any significant disagreement on the truth of this time period, then you are better off being disconnected, as painful as that may seem.

If he agrees that the above statements, or some statement that you and he can agree on, without force on either one, then he should see the consequences of his terrible behavior. (Or you could see false data in what you have written, and tell me.)

Then, you can explore alternatives, but it would seem that you need to move out of your town. The fact that he is "tied to his job" is a problem for both of you, but as long as the story above is true, and unless you can get him agree to a handling that does the job, then it is time for him to move you to another town of your choice, and for him to wind up affairs at his job within one month, and come to the new home and find a job.

This should not be a prolonged action. You should have plenty of money to live on in the new place.

If I am going to counsel someone like this I don't try to get proof of what you say as being truth. I accept it as truth.

The test is whether he sees the same truth. If he does, then he must do something that will help you and him live without any further contact with the bad ones in this scene. I could advise you further on this. But, as long as there is even a small part of any lie not admitted by the boy, or the girl, or the mother, or your mother, or the grandmother, then those people are not worthy of any continued relationship.

I don't care how friendly you might think you now are with either the boy or the husband, a refusal to accept the truth, a denial of that reality, is enough for you to disconnect.

I would leave to you to decide even whether to tell them where you have moved to. Your husband? Yes, but only with his promise to tell no one else. They have not proven worthy of any continued relationship.

Your life is at stake. Certainly your marriage is at stake. Your life is more important than your marriage.

No matter how difficult it may seem to become separated, or divorced, if the above story is true, you need a very drastic change in your life -- probably one of location -- far away from the crazies!

I can't take the time to iron out small details, but I can advise more. If you and Gene agree on what has happened, and if he accepts responsibility for what you say he did -- then either he supports you by making this drastic change in location, or you kick him out? Or, you leave?

You don't have a mother to go to. Who do you have, even very temporarily, that you can go live with for a short while.

If you have to do this extreme, moving out by yourself, then you should find a friend who would be the ONLY one who knows where you are, and that friend would be the ONLY one Gene would talk to. You should not talk to him if this comes to this.

I can advise you of what you should expect to hear, from Gene, but only through your friend. I should not be that person. I will never ask for any money for any advices I offer.

Again, he needs to see this.

I will offer more advice as this might move along.

He should pay, also, for a total toxic cleansing program for you -- probably about $2000. But you should not start that program until after you are re-situated. He may need it too. What drugs has he put into his body?

Obviously your diet has to change. Continue with OA. The diet and weight problem will not change much with all this junk still sitting around in your space.

You can certainly show him all or any of my messages.

I'm writing this on Friday afternoon. I regularly answer eMails seven days per week -- so let me know how this goes.

Cordially,

Karl Loren