You Didn't Believe Me -- But I Got Off The Drug Cold Turkey -- Now Here Is The Name Of That Doctor

now, i read your web page about how you discover how to tell if the person is really off drugs. if you are to call her and get her to admit she told me i could go off cold turkey, i can then ask you again for regular advice. (she was wrong, though, because, like i told you, i suffered brain damage as a result of rare adverse reactions and improper medical advice.)

she'll never admit that she's wrong. if you say anything intellectual, she won't really know the answers.

since i read your webpage about giving you the name of my old shrink in order to let you know that she prescribed me drugs and i collapsed in my car from them and had to stop cold turkey 7 months ago, i want to give you her business info.

please confirm with her so that you can believe that what i am saying is true.

you thought i was on drugs and i kept telling you i wasn't, but i want your advice, so i am writing you.

again, please confirm this with her. i want to sue the shrinks who prescribed the junk (but don't tell her that i am considering it!). she doesn't know what damage she's done to me. i almost lost my life a couple of times from adverse reactions but i haven't contacted her because i've been fighting for my life and am considering shark live cell therapy in mexico to see if it will help me. i have such brain damage it is not even funny.

here is her number and info., but please!, again!, do not call her and let her know i may consider a lawsuit against her. somehow, can you be discreet enough so that she doesn't yell at you (she yells or acts snooty) and tell you "she's no longer a patient." i told her i had to go cold turkey because i collapsed in my car from the drugs from an adverse reaction involving my heart and lungs and she told me i was lying. surely, she wanted to make up any excuse to say it was all in my mind so that she wouldn't have to take any medical malpractice responsibility. well,

anyway, please get her to say she was my doctor for the 2 sessions she had with me where she prescribed me a drug immediately while seeing me the first time. she didn't even know much about me. just prescribed.

foolishly, a dangerous "medicine". I stopped being under her "treatment" because she was constantly being evil and manipulating me. i could say nothing without being called a liar. that's how scary she is. and most of all, because she comes off as oh-so-professional,

like a professor of some great philosophy. i wondered if she was on something(s).

anyway, i'd like to get advice from you after you have gotten proof that i am not telling you bullshit. i am not lying. i have severe and terrible brain damage.

here's her name and phone number: alisa cross, m.d., los angeles, (323)466-8300

-please know that the first thing she will tell you is that according to her, i'm "psychotic". yes, this, to cover her butt!!! she may say she has "patient confidentiality". i don't know. but what i do know is that she was totally judgmental, demeaning, falsely accusatory and manipulative. all the qualities i would expect from a psych doctor!

i hate to say now- i don't know where to go! i don't know what to do. i've been so disabled. after may, i was surprised to be alive. i am now a walking vegetable- like you said. i can't change it. i don't know if shark live cell therapy can. i'm considering it in mexico. i'm thinking about making an appointment for the 2nd week of december. i told the doctor i ran out of $ since i couldn't get traditional doctors to rectify the nerve damage of my brain, so i ended up spending tons (now i have no money).

i can't stand traditional doctors. they screwed up by telling me i had conditions i never had to my HMO just so they could get paid. i had been locked up for that.

then, i couldn't get a doctor to agree with me that i had never had a psychiatric condition because they all wanted to believe that if they couldn't detect my brain damage from the outside, why bother trying to, because all it would do it get other doctors in trouble!

i am in so much of a mess!- please help me!- if i can be helped anymore. i feel that all that's going to come back, naturally, has! i used a far red sauna, two detox diets for 2 months each on whole foods. nowhere have i gotten. i feel a little stronger but no sensory stuff has come back!- in fact, i have to move very soon because i have to move to a quiet neighborhood since my hearing was altered/damaged as a result of the drugs. i hear everything now 10x louder than i used to. it's so sensitive, little things sound very loud and right next to my ears.

i read you mentioned that live cell therapy is good only for intact cells. i'm afraid of having an alergic reaction or no intact cells. not the kind of cell that i am thinking of. since the drug was a "nerve antagonist", i fear that's what was just destroyed. i don't know exactly what happened in the reaction i had, but i did read an article saying those cells, if they incorrectly are hyperstimulated, will die immediately. that's what it felt like they did.

anyway, i know this is a long letter. you get many letters. after you talk to my former shrink, maybe you will know i'm not lying, she's a bitch, and she prescribed me that drug that i HAD to come off! she insisted that i take drugs and told me to double my dose after i told her i was having cardiac troubles, and said, after 20 minutes of talking to her at one session, that i had some phony psych "condition" that i NEVER had.

she jeopardized my life, and i don't know if i'm even ever gonna recover from what's been done to me-!

anyway. there you are. the name (& number) of my former shrink. blast her. get her. she acts very coldly- just to let you know. i asked her immediately upon meeting her if she was christian and that lit her so badly that she instantly snapped at me and became extremely professionally cold, hostile, manipulative, and evil! i have confidence that you'll try to get her to admit her part in something at least, though! (but- you know, in CA, it's "illegal" if she admits i was ever a person under her care because it violates laws about privacy). whatever. i know there have been so many laws broken in my case, psychiatrically, i know that if she did anything more illegal, she wouldn't be the first one! she tried to do some illegal thing to me. she got away with a few things!-

could you please write me back after you have recognized that she's a prescriber of psych drugs!-

she's good at putting words in your mouth, telling you YOU'RE some way when really she is the one with a problem!- she even told me when i complained about feeling pains in my head, "oh, you can't feel pain in your head because brains don't have pain receptors!"

(What's a headache then?) she told me i was psychotic because i thought i could feel painful feelings in my head. without one physical test to see if i was having a nasty neurological reaction, she prescribed a drug to counter the effect of the other drugs. after i quit, i had not gone back to tell her what had happened, that i had gotten damaged. i didn't think it was a good idea to share that with her until i determine whether a lawsuit would be the best avenue.

no one will be able to repay anything that will generate any nervous system abilities that i've lost.

I will check up on that doctor, probably Monday next. I doubt if she is in her office the next few days.

I may have you confused with another person who wrote me, but as I recall the detox programs you were on, I wrote you, were no good. So, detox is urgently needed, but there is ONLY one type of detox you should get.

I may have discarded your earlier messages that included your address. Please send that.

One Ms. Karen Kim, of Los Angeles, has indicated to me that she was your patient some time ago and that you prescribed psychiatric drugs for her.

She has also told me that you were not helpful to her in getting off such drugs when she asked for your help.

1. Have you ever prescribed anti-depressants or any psychiatric drug for anyone?

If either I do not get any response from you, or if you confirm that the above should be answered "yes," then I will be publishing information about you on one of my web pages.

-----Original Message-----
From: Karen Kim [mailto:tienbeark@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 1:57 PM
To: karl@karlloren.com
Subject: RE: i'm giving you the name of the past shrink

dear karl,

thanks, and have a good thanksgiving.

if you need anything else- let me know.

i was the one who took anti-psychotic drugs for a month (from other docs- do you want their names, too?

oh, you would love it, they illegally committed me for 3 days by taking the word of a third party instead of mine and labelled me with "bi-polar", when they had only talked to me for 5 minutes before asking me if i had any health insurance! then, they "decided" i had something wrong with me. because they did, i was given more drugs that shouldn't have been given to me- zyprexa, zoloft, depakote.) and then quit cold turkey for a month and then went on another drug, which made me collapse on the 8th day, which that lady prescribed me. keep in mind, she's a psychiatrist, so she's gonna think that's her job. she said that i was psychotic,

i'm sure, again, because she didn't believe me!

the two other docs were dr. jay wung and dr. donald wallens at cedars-sinai. (310)556-2095. dr. wung, i think, fled cedars after i had told dr. wallens that dr. wung, his associate, had made a very big diagnostic mistake. dr. wung was around my age and very cocky, so i think he fled the hospital in order to try and save his career. to this day, i can't find him. i wish i could sue him for malpractice and end his medical career now!

dr. steven charles at county USC hospital was the first one who prescribed. keep in mind that this is a research hospital, funded by the state for the University of Southern California. they want to
prescribe everything for everything. anyway, i didn't run the normal gammut of getting to go to the regular emergency room first, like most people. because my boss lied about me to a co-worker, she was ordered to escort me there straight to the psych e.r. so the doctor had no chance to deem me even fit to have to go there. my boss won!-

ever since then, i've been taking no drugs, but i was concerned because i know that quite a bit of damage has happened. i have alot of pressure and damage in my head and can't feel, sense my environment, think creatively or emotionally, or work. I'M SURE THIS IS NOT A SURPRISE TO YOU. ALTHOUGH I TELL EVERYONE THIS, NO ONE BELIEVES ME SO I MUST FACE A LIFE TRYING TO GET TESTS TO PROVE SOMETHING IN ORDER THAT I MAY FIGURE
OUT HOW TO PAY FOR EVERYTHING. I HAVE NO MONEY AND HARDLY ANY FRIENDS LEFT BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE DOCTORS MUST BE RIGHT IF THEY SAID I CAN'T POSSIBLY HAVE BRAIN DAMAGE OFF THESE DRUGS. They told me i must be crazy for thinking i do. i don't have to "think" i do. i know i do. i can feel it because i know how
drastically things have changed. no one understands. i sought after help in the form of live cell therapy and i'm invited to go down to mexico to check out dr. luis velasquez's work. i'm so mad. i never wanted to be in this position where i am fighting for my own life and functioning because some FDA-approved meds messed me up. i'm the one who can't feel emotional feelings, have facial paralysis after i had a reaction after drinking a quart of sports drink 7 months ago.

i'm glad you wrote that piece you did. i read it, in awe. i didn't realize you had gotten so many
letters... i thought i was one of the few. my friend, an optomitrist, just told me how surprised she is because she's seen a lot of patients of hers who are on drugs, mostly anti-depressants, which aren't nearly as hard as the anti-psychotics. namely- that last drug which was prescribed by her after she didnt' believe i was having stabbing and electrical head pains, risperdal, was a nerve-antagonist and all the website warn that it should be taken in the smallest possible dose. of course, my nasty shrink ordered me to take ,5 mgs first and then doubled it on the 3rd day. i was taking 8 times what my friend takes.

well, without going too much further yet, i think i should shut up now and let you enjoy your thanksgiving day. if you should have any more comments, feel free to write or call.

thank you,
karen kim
xxxx
los angeles, ca xxxx
cel (213)422-xxxx

i'm also sending you my picture, which i took over 2 years ago. before this happened. (this happened because my boss at work wanted to injure me through a shrink to get rid of me at work. she was jealous of me and afraid i was getting more respect than her. we were close in age. i worked in the fashion industry and she was power-tripping. nice, huh? i look way different now, bloated, out of shape, neurologically injured, can't see or hear the same at all. i look like a crazy person since i look stiff and can't move my face or think well. i used to have perfect health
and was really sharp.)

-----Original Message-----
From: Karen Kim [mailto:tienbeark@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 10:45 PM
To: karl@karlloren.com
Subject: RE: i'm giving you the name of the past shrink

karl,

- so i guess i'll hear from you when you hear from
her?

do you think live shark cell injections could help or
harm me? i'm afraid of fatal shock since my nerves
seem gone- how in the world would my body adjust? is
there a way i can strengthen my body between now and 2
weeks to prepare for that endeavor? where did you go
and receive your therapy and which animal source cells
did they use?

something unrelated- is it a good idea to drink raw
milk? my friend advised it. i haven't done it before.

karen

-----Original Message-----

From: Karen Kim [mailto:tienbeark@yahoo.com]

Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 3:00 AM

To: karl@karlloren.com

Subject: RE: i'm giving you the name of the past shrink

hi karl,

i have an appt on tues to go with a friend to a clinic in tijuana. did you get cell therapy there, where? i am researching betania west and the center for holistic life extension. i don't know what each's reputaions are and the docs aren't telling me about their toxicity rates or anything, so i am reluctant now. what should i think? my brain doesn't seem to be secreting dopamine or seratonin or anything anymore that used to be able to make me feel. i think that would've now compromised every system in my body. that is why i am scared that i may not be able to take it well- that i may have an adverse immunological reaction. my body is compromised.

i checked out this website- it says it has this product- i don't know if it helps. please let me know what you think about it. i am rethinking everything.

it is a supposed cell repair supplement in pill form.

i saw this one called www.achilleshealthmart.com but i don't know if they're just selling a bunch of crap.

there's testimonials on some product they have, called something ending with a 7, but you have to take it forever... of course! so, what recourse do i have? my best friend is scared i'll die from any alternative cellular therapy and suggests i just leave all my damage alone. to her, anything from or in mexico is scary since she's heard of nightmare things happening there. i can't say i'm not apprehensive.

can you tell me what you think about these 2 articles?:

http://author.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic211.htm

http://www.canoe.ca/HealthAlternativeColumns/010712.html

how likely could i get these? and do you think i should research this therapy per clinic/doctor reputation or per type of cell therapy (what they're using- sheep, bovine, rabbits, shark, etc.?) is one type any better than the other? i know each clinic uses different suppliers so each one has different standards of quality and different stages at which the cells have been harvested.

i am also reluctant as to what types of cells. brain?

what does my brain do with brain? if there is no place to go, because of lets say, messed up signals, scarring, whatever. what happens? tumors? stuck there? what? i am scared at the possibility.

what would you advise me to do after reading what i have listed for you to reference above? if i were your own daughter, what would you advise i do? would you ask me to take new, different supplements now and see what they do? or go with the big guns and try cellular therapy first? i am scared. 7 months. it seems like there's gonna be no more improvement, unless i do something. but can something be done?

i wonder if the answer re: brain damage is "not always".

karen

Dear Karen,

Generally it would be very bad practice for me to accept YOUR suggestions on how you should be helped -- if you could do it by yourself, you would have done it.

Yes, I've had live cell therapy in TJ.

No, you should not even consider it, now.

Karen, you are looking for some magic bullet. Did I not say I would help -- so why do you go off chasing after moonbeams?

Today is long enough. I have not heard from the psychiatrist, so in due course I'll put her name on my page, and you are not eligible for my help.

But, none of my help will involve any money spent with me -- you are not in a position to be seeking advice from someone who you pay -- because you are willing almost to believe anything just now.

I will not read any of your references. You are foolishly chasing those magic bullets.

There is only ONE thing for you now to do.

Go to this page on my web site and start reading.

http://www.chelationtherapyonline.com/technical/p8.htm

Do not fool around elsewhere -- just either listen to me, or go elsewhere.

Read that page, and all the links. There is a book offered for sale. You can buy it if you wish. it is cheap.

then, you need to do the detoxification program described there -- no other, no substitute, only the one described there.

let me know.

Karl Loren

karl,

i think i just messed it up.

you're right, i wasn't able to do it myself.

anyway, i went to some naturopathic practitioner, being antsy, it's been hard being like this, i wasn't able to see anything correctly, i wasn't able to focus on anything. i felt as though a piece of reality was taken away from me.

i went to this guy and he used a zapper to find out that i had some high levels of something in my body which had some frequency of 299000 volts or something like that. anyway, he zapped me with an equal and opposite voltage through my hands. now, i wake up and have a difference in seeing, but it is not good. i think maybe my brain cells were actually there but volting at another speed- nothing that was matching up with my other brain cells (and that's why i wasn't able to get the communication). anyway, now i feel ruined. do you think it zapped out my brain cells so that now they're killed? i feel numb like they really don't work now and he said the zapper is usually used to kill parasites and stuff in the body and he zapped me for 2 minutes.

what do you think about that?

karen

Dear Karen,

I think you did mess up.

You are one of the most creative persons I've every known for committing suicide.

Seriously, Karen, I must be very careful with you.

I am not a doctor. I do not prescribe. Presently I am unwilling to sell you any of my products, even though I am in business to sell stuff.

So, no more zapping.

Read that web page.

Arrange to go to a place that delivers ONLY the genuine Hubbard Detox Program -- no other.

In the meantime, as a bit of relief, go to any health food store and buy "Calm" -- it is a calcium magnesium combination, in an apple cider base. You can get packets or bulk. Bulk is cheaper. it is a white powder. You take a spoonful, mix with boiling water (boiling) and then put ice cubes into that to cool.

When it is cool, drink. it is very calming -- should make you feel calm. Helps you sleep.

you can drink a couple cups full, at night is a good time.

Also, perhaps I've written to you before, until you do that detox (which should be soon), get into a gym, go as often as you can -- exercise -- so that you sweat.

Sweat and exercise are your friends.

Let me know when you are going to do the detox program, and where. In order to be eligible for the detox, you will probably have to have a physical, and the doctor may think you need to go to a place that handles people with more toxins. Don't get off this track.

Cordially,

Karl Loren

karl,

shoot!- i knew it!

i also knew you would not hear from her. would help if

i called for you and record it?

i will do your chelation. however, would anything,

incl, cell therapy work now since i've screwed

everything up?

karen

Dear Karen,

I don't care if I don't hear from her.

I just need to give her notice -- to give her a chance to say the data is false.

No reply? I publish.

Karen, I said that you would "alter" things -- you have.

I do NOT want you to do "my chelation."

I want you to do the detox program, sweat, exercise, Calm.

that is all I have advised.

So, try very hard to understand me.

I can't stop you from worrying, about brains, etc., but I will not validate such foolishness by responding to that.

Karl Loren

-----Original Message-----

From: Karen Kim [mailto:tienbeark@yahoo.com]

Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 3:41 PM

To: karl@karlloren.com

Subject: - huh?

karl,

are you saying i will be damaged forever until i die then?

and i've thrown everything off so much now that i will die of something i develop probably very soon. every chemical level is so off, i'm getting sorer every day.

so what you're saying now is just be as calm as poss. about what's happened because "you won't be able to undo the damage?" should i take the fillings out of my mouth as well or not bother?

karen

Dear Karen,

You have invented new stuff. As I predicted, you have altered what I have said.

I have said what I said. I did not say what you said I said.

I've told you what I suggest you do.

I will not repeat that.

I will not answer any more questions, because you are just avoiding the issue.

Do what I suggested, or not. It is up to you, only.

When you have done some of that, write and tell me.

Nothing else will get any response.

Everything else is simply your attempt to avoid what I have suggested.

Regards,

Karl Loren

-----Original Message-----
From: Karen Kim [mailto:tienbeark@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 4:24 PM
To: karl@karlloren.com
Subject: RE: - huh?

hi karl,

i have called narconon. it is $20K. i cannot afford
that. :(

i am scared. i don't know what you said, i guess. if i
have altered anything, i guess all i want to know is
is it permanent? because i guess it might be. i guess
i will never know unless i do the narconon thing
first.

but i will try. unfortunately, since i cannot afford
admission, they referred me to a place in sacramento
where they have an outpatient sauna program. would you
endorse that? where could i get $20K?

karen

Dear Karen,

I do not know, and do not need to know your drug history. Narconon is the place the heavy druggies go -- the people who are almost beyond hope.

Yes, the Sacramento place would be fine.

Some doctor would decide how drugged up you have been. If Sacramento Hubbard detox will take you, go there.

The fee at Narconon is very reasonable when you consider the harm you have done to yourself and the fact that this is the only way out for you. I could go on about the amount of money you have already spent on drugs, or that others have spent for you. Those people, whoever they were, who gave you money or paid for drugs? They are the ones who have killed you!

I was on staff at Narconon for some years. Part of my duties took me inside various prisons where I helped deliver anti-drug courses. Narconon delivers the only service on the planet which can free a drug addict, or a psychiatric victim, from the body-supply of deadly drugs.

I lived in a Narconon headquarters building. I did the detox program, personally. I know what it can do for you -- what it did for me.

I saw many people doing the detox along with me -- some just finishing, some just starting while I did it. I was very familiar with the Narconon program, but it has been changed since then to take into account the increasing toxicity of drugs now, compared to even 20 years ago. The Narconon program includes quite a bit more than just the detox itself -- but, then, you can learn all the current data about it from their web, or literature.

It has been some time for me and I am no longer as familiar as I had been. The Sacramento program would probably not be as extensive as the Narconon program. But, both of them use the same "Hubbard Detox" procedure.

Your path is only, now, to hold on to the truth that there is no other solution for you.

If you feel sorry enough for yourself, you can always find money for more drugs -- that will be easy money to find.

I have no knowledge of your friends, family, or anything, nor will I spend time trying to solve that money problem for you. It would be self-defeating for you to write me more about your problems -- it is ONLY you who can solve them.

It is your life. You have no other life before you without that detox program. I know, with certainty, Karen, that if you want to be clean, you will find a way to do this program. If you have decided to die, it can be fast or slow, up to you, but it is mostly likely to be very slow and very painful, with the greater part of it spent in self-pity, and in full forgetfulness of this very short period in time when you got CLOSE to the detox.

If you hold to the truth that this is the only path of sanity for you, you CAN make it, but I will NOT be one to help you further.

I've given you exactly the right advice, including the Calm, sweat, exercise -- and ultimately Narconon (or Sacramento).

It is up to you to want this more than anything else in your life, and find a way.

You may be tempted to say, "I can't!"

When you say that, it becomes true.

I have led you this far, but will lead no further -0- it is your responsibility to care for yourself enough to get this done for yourself.

I will respond, from now on, ONLY to messages of how you are succeeding in getting into Narconon or Sacramento. You might consider sending them $25, and starting the flow of money to pay for the total cost.

Of course, there would be no reason to "waste" the $25 if you are sure you will never go there.

Karen, good luck!

Regards,

Karl Loren

You Didn't Believe Me -- But I Got Off The Drug Cold Turkey -- Now Here Is The Name Of That Doctor

Map to Larchmont Boulevard