John's Brother Is A Pedophile

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April 23, 2005
Dear Karl

Your response was quite predictable.

You call me "argumentative" because I do not fit your profile and am asking questions accordingly.

Asking questions in NOT being argumentative Karl.

Receiving answers is conducive to learning, but you seem to be unwilling to answer my question.

I have met and delt with such as you before.

Wishing you the best in Life.

Try to be "open minded" Karl. Don't worry, your brains won't fall out.

Mr. John T. Strain

April 22, 2005
Dear John,

You continue to be argumentative.

I do not choose to continue this.

I do answer everyone, but I allow others to conclude that I may not be able to be helpful -- that is YOUR conclusion -- but your argumentativness is not conducive to your learning.

Karl

From: John
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 2:25 PM
To: lct@oralchelation.com
Subject: RE: My brother's FM

Karl - please clarify. You say one common explanation is that I am being the "effect" of my brother's behavior but that I do not recognize it -- this is not unusual. I assume that you are trying to say that I might be the "CAUSE" of my brothers FM symptoms?? If that is what you meant - it is much clearer to state it as I just have - your wording does not make it completely clear. "EFFECT" and "CAUSE" - cause being the better word to use - it clearifies things. In response - I have considered this possibility already. If you recall I brought this possibility up in my very first email to you. You may also recall that all along you have seemingly side-stepped my questioning as to why, even though I am under considerable stress concerning my brother's situation (seeing him suffering etc), I have not developed FM symptoms. You state numerious times that upsets in relationships such as I am undergoing with my brother are the primary cause of developing FM symptoms. Even in this last email you do not address this issue, {why I have not developed FM symptoms}. I understand what you are saying concerning someone denying that they might be an adverse effect in the others behavior. Again, I am certainly facing this possibility - re: my very first email to you! Karl - I am willing and do face the reality of my situation. (I am NOT arguing here by the way) Thank you for your concern but it appears that my situation does not fit your profile, (me not developing FM symptoms from the very thing that you say causes them). I would like to tell you that a solution to my brother's FM and hopefully other problems has just reciently developed. The boy's mother and her whole "clan" are moving back to the Missouri Ozarks from whence they all came. My brother and I have discussed this and he has said that he definitely feels that by removing this influence from his life he can get back to enjoying his retirement years. He realizes that he has made a terrible mistake here and has brought a lot of unecessary frustrations upon himself. I asked him if he felt that perhaps what he has done has brought on or at least contributed to his FM symptoms and other problems. He said that he definitely KNOWS that it has! I pray that at last he has come to a realization of the errors that he has made and turns away from that sort of things and does not repeate them anymore. As for me - thank goodness that I did not develop FM symptoms from my concern and upset over my brother. Needless to say, seeing him getting his life straightned out, can do nothing but good for me too. Again thank you Karl for your emails. You might consider my origional question though - "why didn't I develop FM symptoms?". John

Dear John,

You have a strong tendency to want to argue with me.

I do not argue.

If my advice and comments seem wrong to you -- then you should not listen.

Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 9:05 PM
To: lct@oralchelation.com
Subject: RE: My brother's FM

Below - a quote from your last email to me:

"If he is breaking the law (your judgment -- not mine) and your morals reject such behavior, then as long as you associate with him (him not changing) then YOU will be and get sick, have accidents."

He is and I'm not (getting sick, have accidents etc).

That is the point I have been trying to make.

John

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Dear John,

Fair enough. The reason for my question was that my research shows that anyone who takes one of these psychiatric drugs is so damaged, both physically and mentally, that my Company, by firm policy, refuses to sell anything to them, and even I refuse to answer much in the way of questions from such -- unless they follow my "protocol" for exposing the drug pushing doctor. I have a web page where I publish the "hall of infamy" of doctors who I have found to be prescribing psychiatric drugs -- these people turned in to me by the people who sought my advice.

When I exchange messages, back and forth, between me and someone like you who is interested in data/advice I follow the rather strict rule that I do not attempt to make judgments on the moral issues involved.

Such judgments must come from YOU, or your brother. It is YOUR moral code, or HIS, which I aim to help either you only, or both of you, resolve and understand.

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The book you will soon get is ONE moral code -- I think you will find it quite acceptable for your life. But, it is YOUR decision only that counts.

You could look over this code, coming, and decide that it has some parts you don't agree with. Fair enough! It is your decision. Or, you might feel it is good, but that more must be added to it. Fair enough -- you can add what you think is right.

One of the precepts (codes) in the Book is "don't break the law" or some such words.

Pedophiles are usually violating well-known laws on this subject. In fact there are some people in society (teachers, others) who are REQUIRED by law to report any data that suggests such actions -- certainly among the teaching staff.

So, you have to decide whether your brother has been or is violating some law. It is not up to me to get into the legal niceties on this -- but YOU decide. It is not for the police or a court to decide. It is YOUR moral code. If, in your judgment, he is breaking this type of law, and your moral code includes the concept that neither you nor others should "break the law" then you have a simple problem within the context of my web site.

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If he is breaking the law (your judgment -- not mine) and your morals reject such behavior, then as long as you associate with him (him not changing) then YOU will be and get sick, have accidents.

Your only choices in this situation would be to "handle or disconnect."

"handle" means that you have some sort of communication with your brother that leads to a change in your judgment about his law violation or some change in his behavior.

That is the central core of handle. There can be good questions on "how much" change in behavior you need to see. I'll give you advice on that, but the central core, again, is "handle or disconnect."

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If you get into some sort of communication about this matter and you are convinced that he is breaking the law, and that he won't change, then your only choice is to "move toward" disconnection. That, too, can be gradual -- you start imposing distance between the two of you -- so that he sees (and you do) that unless that behavior changes then your imposition of distance between you and him will increase to some level of greater and greater disconnection.

Now, the disconnection could be sudden, also. In the case of a wife being physically abused by a husband, if he won't change the wife should probably call the police or move out -- quickly.

In your case the abuse is apparently not of you --- but of "little boys." So, the danger to you is less than the "abused wife situation."

If your brother did sex with boys in the past, but you are sure he is not doing it now, then you have a different morals situation than I've described above.

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In other words PAST law violation is not as serious as current law violation.

Let me ask you, now, to consider only your own view of things, not mine, and let me know if he has law violations going on right now. In other words, do you have a moral code that people should not break the law and is he breaking the law right now.

That issue, or some other issue, should be identified as the first step.

Let me know.

Karl Loren

From: John

Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 6:48 AM
To: lct@oralchelation.com
Subject: RE: My brother's FM

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Dear Karl Sometimes reading answers questions.
If you will read what I sent you should be able to deduce that the answer to your question is NO! We are both engineers and as such we think logically. Neither of us believe in the use of DRUGS, especially the psychiatic kind and anyway most if not all "counselors" need counseling themselves - as you well know. Thanks for the concern John

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Dear John,

Before I start even reading this message, and start offering advice or help, let me ask this:

Have either you or your brother sought or obtained counseling help elsewhere -- which help has included the use of any anti-depressant or other such psychiatric medical assistance for any condition?

Please give me this data and I will then respond further.

Regards,

Karl Loren

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From: John
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 8:45 PM
To: lct@oralchelation.com
Subject: RE: My brother's FM

Dear Karl
Thanks for responding to my email. I can understand your not calling people - email will be quite acceptable. You said that the details of the complexity was not what you need to know - but how much I am willing to do to repair the relationship with my brother. I disagree - without knowing some of the "complexity" it would be impossible for you to begin to understand the problem. You may recall in my pervious email that I stated that morality was an issue. My brother is a pedifile! I belive that some if not all his FM symptoms may be associated with his KNOWING that what he has done and is doing is WRONG, and is in direct contridiction to everything that our mother taught us. When he retired I helped him move here to this location. He and I had gone our seperate ways early in life. I kept in contact with him, we are both Amateur Radio operators. I followed him via Ham radio as his job with the Government Health Service took him around the world to various locations. Wherever he went he met and became involved to some extent with "young boys". He almost got sent to prison once but by hireing a lawyer he was able to get out of that problem. After that he seemed to "cool it" for quite awhile. In fact I thought that by him retireing to this new location where he didn't know any young boys that things would be different, after all he is older now.

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He and I had been discussing the possibility of us traveling around the world together when I retired, seeing things and going places and doing things that we had always wanted to do. He and I are both engineers, he being a civil engineer and I being an electronics engineer. As such we enjoy the same type of things and have had extreemly good times on the trips that we have taken together in the past - before retireing. Earlier I mentioned I helped him move to this location. He is younger than I but his government job allowed him to retire before me. I continued working for a few years after he retired and I would come visit him on my vacations and help him getting his new place fixed up. It was during these visits that he and I made plans for our travels after I retired. I liked this area and decided that I would like to perhaps retire here also and this would help facilitate out travel plans too. We always got along together very well and enjoyed working together etc. He discovered that the property across the road from his place was up for sale and told me about it. I had been looking for property via the internet and had been looking at this very property but had no idea where it was located. I bought it and later have retired here. He and I have enjoyed many very good times - however, before I retired - once again he "got involved" with some young boys. As time has gone by he has developed these FM symptoms and they seem to keep getting worse. Now he has started blameing me - saying that whenever I am around he can't concentrate and he makes mistakes and that he gets headaches and all kinds of bad things. Needless to say, our travel plans have completely evaporated. I like "the boys" and they like me - but my brother does not want me to go on the trips that he takes them on anymore. I have gone on a very few trips with them and the

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boys and I always have good times. They respect me. I sincerely believe that my brother has grown beyond any sexual pedifile type affiliations with the boys but the things that he does for and with them in many ways does not seen to be what I would consider to be in their best interests. The boys are taking advantage of him and so is their mother. (My brother buys the boys almost anything that they want and also buys their mother stuff. I have never once heard any of them thank my brother.) One of the boys, the older one, has left home and is living in my brother's house now. The younger boy comes out and stays with my brother every weekend and sometimes during the week. Also, my brother has several of the boy's friends at his place on weekends. As I said in my first email - I should be having FM symptoms, what with seeing all this bad stuff concerning my brother. Instead, it is HE that is having the FM symptoms. Return To Top

I wonder - what is your "take" on this? As for myself, I agree with you that the best thing for ME is to "divorce" myself from this situation. I am presently looking into and making plans to move to another location, far away. Of course that will have to be my final move so I am taking my time. I plan to give him one of the books when they arrive. Perhaps that might be enough to start him along the proper path, I hope so. I, of course, have to be careful of how I approach him - for as you stated it is usually necessary for a neutral person to help. Now you should have enough insite to begin to understand that this is not one of the usual "relationship" type situations. I find it interesting that you relate FM symptoms to a person experiencing upset etc from a "relationship" (and I sure am experiencing upsets from this situation), and yet I am not experiencing the FM symptoms but it is my brother who is. Kinda puts a "spin" on things doesn't it? I will be interested to hear your comments. Sincerely John

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Dear John,

Generally I don't call people -- I carry on extensive eMail exchanges.

Your brother presumably also has others behaving in ways that upset him -- and these could be the cause of his FM. The fact that he, himself, also acts that way -- may affect you, or others, but it is certainly not unusual that he is also thus affected.

It is often true that a person (you ?) hangs on to a relationship in hopes of fixing it -- when the fixing is not likely -- so you can certainly get the pain.

The rule is "handle or disconnect." If you can't handle, then disconnection is the only salvation for YOU -- strangely, it will also help him -- because he continues to behave this way because others allow it!

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It is a complex issue.

Who is "wrong?" It would easily be "both." Two people can cause each other problems by behaving in ways that upset the other.

Honest communication is difficult, but is the only solution -- besides disconnection for the health of both. It is a sad thing when "divorce" is the "right" solution.

This type of situation calls for advanced skills. I have them, but they don't work much by eMail -- personal communication and extensive. I don't offer this service.

If you show great interest, I can lead you in that direction???

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I agree that your quote is valid, and agree you can do something. The first "fix" would be to simply give him one of the books -- it might be enough.

The details of the complexity are not what I need to know, but how much you are willing to do to repair the relationship??

It is usually necessary for a neutral person to help both of you go through the exercise leading to improved relationships.

Karl Loren

The "Wrong Relationship" Cause Of Health Problems -- Virtually ALL disease starts with a "wrong relationship" -- August 7, 2002This bold, tiny bit of data could dramatically solve your "hopeless disease" problem -- here is the "universal solvent" for understanding the absence of health!

Moral Drift in Society leads to poor health, broken homes, and trillions of dollars of investment losses -- August 7, 2002 At the bottom of "wrong relationships" are violations of the common sense moral code by which society runs -- deviations and perversions are becoming more and more common -- as the society drifts down the tubes! Something can be done about it!

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date: Tuesday, April 19th, 2005 at 09:41:47
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FirstName: John

Dear Karl, My brother refered me to your site. He is suffering from what he considers to be fibromyalgia (FM). From what I have read so far I can see that his diet is certianly conducive to bringing about most of the symptoms of FM, however, I had not considered the possible connection to bad relationship problems as being a source of FM symptoms. There is a rather unique "spin" in our particular situation I believe. As you have discussed, the bad relationship situation usally manifests itself by FM symptoms occuring in a person from frustration etc experienced when they see bad things happening to someone that they love and are concerned about. In this instance - my brother is causing me frustrations and much concern by his actions, and yet HE is the one who is complaining of FM symptoms. It would be too extensive to attempt to explain here - but if you are interested and would like to call me sometime perhaps I can discuss the details with you. Perhaps I too am suffering FM symptoms from my relationship problems concerning my brother - I do not know, or if so I am probably ignoring them. I suspect that after reading your information he may now be saying that he is having a relationship problem with me that is causing his FM symptoms. This in fact may be true, (our relationship being part of his FM symptoms). He has been informing me for some time now that whenever I am around he makes mistakes, developes headaches and cannot concentrate etc. My question would be - "who is wrong here". That is why I made the statement earlier concerning there being a rather unique "spin" in this situation and it being my brother who is causing me frustrations etc and yet it is he who is complaining of the FM symptoms. (sorry if that sounds condicttory - it isn't) I realize that this is becoming a bit confusing and I appologize for that. I would like to enclose a quote from you: "Most often it is easiest to see moral problems in others tha n yourself - and there is something you can do about that. If that person is close to you, then his or her survival is important to you. It pains you to see him or her harming themselves. Your happiness will be affected". My happiness IS being affected. Am I the cause of his FM? A morality issue DOES exists here! By reading what you say about morality and from what I know of "right vs wrong" the issue is my brother's and not mine. Thank you for redaing the above.

John

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Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 5:29 AM
To: lct@oralchelation.com
Subject: RE: My brother's FM

Dear Karl

I do not intend to be argueing with you - I am just trying to point out to you that it is my brother who is experencing the FM not I - and from all that you have been saying concerning the cause of FM it should be me and not him.

Why am I not experiencing FM symptoms?

John Strain

_________________________________________________________________________

Karl Loren <lct@oralchelation.com> wrote:

Dear John,

You have a strong tendency to want to argue with me.

I do not argue.

If my advice and comments seem wrong to you -- then you should not listen.

K.

Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 9:05 PM
To: lct@oralchelation.com
Subject: RE: My brother's FM

Below - a quote from your last email to me:

"If he is breaking the law (your judgment -- not mine) and your morals reject such behavior, then as long as you associate with him (him not changing) then YOU will be and get sick, have accidents."

He is and I'm not (getting sick, have accidents etc).

That is the point I have been trying to make.

John

John,

One common explanation is that you are being the effect of your brother's behavior but do not recognize it -- this is not unusual.

Many wives, badly abused by a husband, will sincerely deny that they are the adverse effect of their husband's behavior.

My help is useful to people who are able to face the reality of their situation -- many do not.

Karl

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